What’s your number? This is the first question I ask when considering a new hire. I expect those I ask to know what it costs for them to live—not just to survive, but to thrive. I start with this question because it gives me a chance to understand a prospective employee’s expectations and needs, and to assess my ability to meet them.
Since 2018, I have worked with close to 2,000 high school students, providing them with paid summer work experience. Most had never considered their number before. I also mentor many young Gen Zers who are now finishing college and looking for their first full-time post-college job. One mentee, Sophia Castellanos—who just graduated from my alma mater, Claremont McKenna College—earned a degree in international relations. She asked if I might have any opportunities for her.
I was surprised when she had a ready response to my question. Numbers have been at the forefront of Sophia’s mind; she’s facing the burden of $200,000 in college loans at a 6% interest rate. Those payments alone add up to $3,000 a month, as she’s trying to pay off her debt in less than 10 years.
Sophia’s number is $130,000. But a small company like mine does not have the budget to pay that salary for an entry-level position. I offered to have a frank discussion with Sophia to explore scenarios that might serve both of our needs. She has given permission to share the crux of our discussion. Sophia agreed to share her number publicly because we both believe this transparency will help other college graduates and employers think about how they can be creative when negotiating with their number in mind.
Here is what we discussed.
June: Thanks for sharing your number, Sophia. All I can offer you right now is $65,000 and it would be remote, with full benefits, and many weeks off each year that don’t count toward your PTO.
Sophia: At $65,000 a year, I’d have to consider living at home. That might bring financial stability, in the sense that I wouldn’t have to pay rent, but there are other stressors to living with parents. On the other hand, not living at home with the support of my parents means being on the hunt for an apartment and most likely two to three roommates.
June: Everyone I have hired works remotely. Because of this, I’ve been able to hire people at less than their “number” because they could live in a less expensive area. They also don’t have to worry about transportation costs. Time is a resource, and another way to consider savings.
Sophia: I could foresee taking a lower salary to balance out not having to request PTO for the holidays and having the flexibility of working from home to cut down on costs for transportation as well. Despite the lower salary, I would have fewer needs to accommodate in my number, like gas for a daily commute, food, and rent, bringing my number closer to $100,000. So even though I’d only be making $65,000 versus $130,000, the payout would be having more personal time and work-life balance. Our generation, Generation Z, loves time. We believe your job should be a component in your life, but it shouldn’t be your entire life.
As somebody who’s 22 and $200,000 in debt, who’s just got their degree—you’re hungry. You’re hungry for opportunity. You’re hungry for money. You’re hungry for employment. You want to prove yourself. I did not get into this much debt to not have a fulfilling lifestyle.
June: My ideal person would be somebody who would have that fire in the belly.
Sophia: I think if I’m having this honest conversation with my employer, it’s because I know I’m going to produce good work, because I’m going to put my best foot forward, and I’m going to represent the company that I’m with to the best of my abilities, because I need to. My generation is considered “too green” because they lack experience or the right degree. Yet, as someone fresh from college, I also come with new eyes, opinions, and expectations for how I plan to pursue a career that is fulfilling, thoughtful, and aims to make a difference, which is why when a company is ready to take a risk on me, I will make sure I am well worth it.
June: This is exactly why I do the work I do: It’s about the leap of faith. It’s investing in the younger generation. I feel like that’s my job as a mentor who has been successful in my company. It’s just a number. If I can afford it, I’m going to pay it, because it’s worth it to me.
June Bayha is CEO of Bayha Group. Sophia Castellanos is an alumna from Claremont McKenna College currently interning at Talos Energy.